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Post by bossrock on Dec 15, 2017 10:18:22 GMT -5
Riddle was a guy I did a bit of a 180 on this year but will probably only go as high as number 10 for me. He's had some really awesome stuff in Evolve but like Michael said upthread, on the indies he often came off as "just another guy". Some fine performances, but nothing compared to the stuff I would see against guys like Lee and Yehi that made me go "Wow, this guy is incredible!" And it's a shame because his run in RevPro against guys like Desperado and Suzuki showed he could elevate guys below him to some really good stuff, but so many times he opted to take the generic indie worker route.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Dec 15, 2017 10:25:16 GMT -5
Roman Reigns had the measles/mumps for a month and had a boring main event against the Undertaker at Wrestlemania.
That's all I got.
Someone please rip apart my locked in #1.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 15, 2017 10:27:31 GMT -5
Only criticism I have for Reigns is that he lacks that real, top-notch MOTYC. But I guess that depends on if you value volume over peak. The guy has volume in spades and his peaks are pretty high, just nothing that quite screams "best in the world". As it stands right now he just barely misses the top 10 for me.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 15, 2017 10:32:16 GMT -5
OK, my number 1 is bound to get a lot of responses here: Kenny Omega.
Cons: Too many goofy tag matches that he half-assed it in, a good but not the best run in the G1 until the end, not the most fundamentally-sound guy and often relies on big flashy spots to make a match good.
That being said, the reason I have him at number 1 is due to his large number of high peak matches and ability to elevate more ho-hum opponents like Lethal and Barreta.
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Post by anotherspammer on Dec 15, 2017 10:34:44 GMT -5
Asuka's NXT run was nothing but amazing violent and jarring matches, which is why she is going to be at the top of my list again. However, as sort of the inverse of the criticism of Yehi, can her style of match hold up as unique if she is wrestling more than once every 6 weeks? She's been on the main roster for about 2 months now and has she done anything that captured anybody the same way her NXT matches did?
Whether to give more weight to consistency or peaks is always a big factor in how you rate wrestlers in these year end lists and I don't think anybody is wrong for whichever factor they consider more important nor for not being consistent with which factor you consider more important in compiling your own list. Last year, Asuka's limited appearances made the argument moot. Now that she is on RAW every week and is maybe the 4th best tv-match worker on the show, should this lower her standing?
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Dec 15, 2017 10:42:41 GMT -5
Asuka's NXT run was nothing but amazing violent and jarring matches, which is why she is going to be at the top of my list again. However, as sort of the inverse of the criticism of Yehi, can her style of match hold up as unique if she is wrestling more than once every 6 weeks? She's been on the main roster for about 2 months now and has she done anything that captured anybody the same way her NXT matches did? Whether to give more weight to consistency or peaks is always a big factor in how you rate wrestlers in these year end lists and I don't think anybody is wrong for whichever factor they consider more important nor for not being consistent with which factor you consider more important in compiling your own list. Last year, Asuka's limited appearances made the argument moot. Now that she is on RAW every week and is maybe the 4th best tv-match worker on the show, should this lower her standing? I'm in no way going to penalize her because she got called up and has to work a Raw match every week. She's the highest rated woman on my list. Should finish safely between 15 and 20 for me.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 15, 2017 10:48:37 GMT -5
Hiromu Takahashi will most likely make my top 10. Killer first quarter with great matches against KUSHIDA, Dragon Lee, Taguchi, and Ricochet. Then Best of the Super Juniors came along. I still thought he had the best run even if the tournament was rather lacking and had some genuinely good matches. But the damage to his aura in suffering losses which should have been saved for something truly huge did a number on his star power. And while the match with KUSHIDA at Dominion was arguably a low-end MOTYC, he no longer felt like the special attraction he once was. Like I heard on a Quentin Moody podcast, he just became another Junior Heavyweight. And while I found the Daryl stuff amusing and actually logical as a character, it went a bit overboard in the end and continued to define him as "just another guy".
I still think he had a great year even after losing the title. Really good showings against Jay Lethal and Mark Haskins as well as a really cool tag team run with BUSHI that produced an excellent match with Roppongi 3K. But combine the loss of his aura along with some just OK matches in the WCPW Pro Wrestling World Cup and I can see why some folks would rate him lower.
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Post by duyarvish on Dec 15, 2017 10:58:27 GMT -5
Rush had a good match with Mr. Niebla and anyone who doubts Nick Gage is obviously a fed so my 1 & 2 are golden.
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Post by problematic on Dec 15, 2017 23:20:33 GMT -5
I am warming up more and more to the idea of Reigns at one, but I will say that I think you can ding him on several things.
- In a vacuum I don't think the Taker match matters much. Reigns tried hard and Taker had no business wrestling. On the other hand it was the second straight year where Reigns delivered an utterly lackluster, needlessly long, main event on the biggest show of the year. His fault or not, I think it's wrong to ignore it.
- In a year where I don't think there is any run away winner in terms of consistency, or peak matches, missing any time can and does hurt. Volume v. volume I think he beats everyone in the WWE, but there are at least a few indie guys that match or beat him in that category.
- While I am a fan of formula in wrestling, I think you could probably fairly charge Reigns with being a little heavy on the routine at times. I tend to like his routine, but even in a comparison to someone like Riddle who I think we all see as leaning heavy on certain tricks, I'm not sure Reigns has anything comparable to death matches or shootstyle mini-tournaments. Reigns has his way, and it's a great way in my view, but I'm not sure this is a year where he's strong on variety of match types/approaches.
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Post by duyarvish on Dec 16, 2017 0:40:44 GMT -5
Reigns isn't even someone I'm considering for a very high ranking but docking him for the taker match seems in very poor faith
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jrn
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Post by jrn on Dec 18, 2017 2:02:05 GMT -5
I have Dean Ambrose really, really high. I really enjoy him as a wrestler. I know a bunch of people don't for a variety of reasons and I get them, but I've always enjoyed him as a wrestler. And I think he's had a lot of really good matches.
But I also don't think he's as good as where I have him ranked. That's sort of a byproduct of my system, but he hasn't had many individual performances that blow me away, or a truly great singles match or anything. He also clearly has moments where he's just strolling along. But he's been in a lot of matches that I've found great. He may/probably will drop as I catch up on other stuff, which will probably make me more comfortable with his spot even though I've enjoyed his year.
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jrn
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Post by jrn on Dec 18, 2017 2:05:53 GMT -5
OK, my number 1 is bound to get a lot of responses here: Kenny Omega. Cons: Too many goofy tag matches that he half-assed it in, a good but not the best run in the G1 until the end, not the most fundamentally-sound guy and often relies on big flashy spots to make a match good. That being said, the reason I have him at number 1 is due to his large number of high peak matches and ability to elevate more ho-hum opponents like Lethal and Barreta. I spent the first couple of months finding ways to deconstruct Omega. Not purposefully because I disliked him, but because there was something about his style that just bothered me. Like you said, not fundamentally-sound, relies on big flashy spots too much. But somewhere along the line, around the time of the G1 USA tournament, I changed my tune. There is nothing like a Kenny Omega match in wrestling. And that's a huge compliment no matter what. He is his own, unique, visceral thing. Then he had the end of that G1 which was absolutely nuts. I'll never be a big fan of the first 2 Okada matches, he kind of goes by the philosophy of more = better and always trying to have the best match ever instead of just a great match, which bothers me, but there is something special about Omega. He'll be in my Top 10, maybe Top 5, and probably not #1 but if I love his G1 and Fall run, we'll see.
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Post by xoanafacetico on Jan 6, 2018 12:47:53 GMT -5
First up is the guy I most WANT to rank number one - Fred Yehi Yehi's interesting in that it's hard to say what his biggest match of the year is, or what'd be in his top three. The EVOLVE title matches with Thatcher/Sabre? The former was excellent but the clear B-match to the title change the next day even though he made it close. Sabre? That seemed like it could do either way and I think is his MOTY. The WALTER match obviously didn't have the stakes when PROGRESS couldn't even be bothered to book him the next day and yet it still clearly outshines the 16 Carat final as a better match. He did a great job in the first WWN title match but was so overshadowed by the Riddle/Williams faceoff. I liked his reign with Sauce a lot more than others, but that's me. His tournament booking has been terrible/non-existent even with his Style Battle work being so good because of how little non-WWN he's worked. Is he someone who can really create that kind of drama? He can definitely create heel heat if you saw his EASY pick for worst match of the year but a great, great performance against D'Angelo Dinero of all people in some Baltimore soccer gym. Or is he just that screwed by EVOLVE? Like, how much can anyone make you buy that Gabe would give Teddy Stigma the FIP title?
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bucky
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Post by bucky on Feb 17, 2018 10:11:06 GMT -5
Worth mentioning that WALTER hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Weird, right? It's almost as though there is nothing negative to say about him. Interesting.
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Post by problematic on Feb 17, 2018 23:25:50 GMT -5
If forced to make an argument against WALTER it would be that I think he basically has two matches in his arsenal and he just works them over and over. I love WALTER BUT I don't think I would want to watch 5 of his matches back to back
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