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Post by bigdavesbigscoop on Sept 28, 2017 15:25:19 GMT -5
His match with Goldberg at Mania was a fantastic sprint, his match with Joe at GBOF was really fun, and I enjoyed his role in the Battle of the beef at Summerslam. However, he was exposed badly in the match with Braun which showed he needs to only be in sprints these days. Also to top it off, it might be the last we see of him this year.
He'll probably end up lower-mid pack on my list still.
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Kollin
New Member
Posts: 6
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by Kollin on Sept 29, 2017 6:30:34 GMT -5
I thought he was incredible in the Summerslam match. As much as people talked about Strowman's performance in that match, I felt Brock was amazing. He looked like a true world class performer again. Then the No Mercy match with Strowman he just kind of did... nothing. His sprints were great fun. I'd say for sure top 50, depending on what he does the rest of the year (which, as noted, might not be anything), could get to top 30.
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Post by mrlaughalot on Sept 29, 2017 9:33:53 GMT -5
Hus stuff with Goldberg was really good, on the whole, however, Lesnar has dropped some spots in my eyes. When he's not wrestling he still carries that big match feels for me but when he actually wrestlers I feel that he has taken a step back. His match with joe I think was really well done and the match was worked so Lesnar did not have to be out there for long. When you do sprints with him it works, when you actually take time to wrestle with him I can see how some people think he falls flat. Braun did a fantastic job in covering up for Lesnar when it was clear he was gassed out, and Brock did a good job alerting Braun that he was about done so that protected him some I feel. Overall a solid showing for the beast even if some are done with him.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 29, 2017 9:39:26 GMT -5
He looked great the few times he appeared this year, but man was No Mercy a wet fart of a performance from him. Was totally out of shape and missed some key spots. Unless he kills it at Survivor Series or whenever he's expected back, not sure I can include him.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 7, 2017 10:51:16 GMT -5
As of the first week of October, dude's had five PPV matches this year and is unlikely to have any more. Don't remember much about the Rumble but will be rewatching that maybe sometime this weekend so I'll come back and edit this if need be. That leaves four PPV matches. Three of those were matches that people, including people in this thread, raved about, most notably the Goldberg sprint. I haven't been nearly so high on any of those matches as many but liked them all a whole lot. Then comes the Strowman match which is, hey, not good. So if I'm leaving out the Rumble match (which should probably be disqualified anyway since there's so many moving parts there and if memory serves correctly he spends little time in it), three of his five big matches this year were very good. Batting .600. Way, way above the Mendoza Line, sure, but that's not exactly how things work in wrestling, especially since Lesnar's only got five at bats in 2017. But I'll take that faulty .600 over the stats from any of the other part-timers in WWE this year, including Cena. I'll take that faulty .600 over all but a handful of full-time people in the company.
Sure, he had a shit match with everyone's favorite shiny new toy. Sure, he can basically only work one sort of match at this point. But a limited worker with one bad match this year isn't the same thing as a bad worker, and pretending like it is after you all were ranting and raving at WrestleMania, at GBOF, and at SummerSlam is dumb.
Unless he just gets lost in the shuffle of people with exponentially more matches, he'll be making my list.
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Post by problematic on Oct 7, 2017 16:29:26 GMT -5
Brock all in on his name sake here, but Lesnar has no shot at my list.
The Joe match was good but insanely overrated by some people. Most weeks it would not even be the best WWE tv match of the week.
The Goldberg match was great and felt special. Notch in his belt. It went less than 5 minutes though, and I don't think that's irrelevant when you are comparing him against thousands of others wrestlers all over the world, and when he has a grand total of five matches for the year.
The four way at Summerslam was great, but worth noting he got a mid-match break, and absolutely no one thought he was the star of the match (Braun was).
Braun match was not just not good. It was not good because of Brock. I can't imagine anyone arguing with that at this point.
Despite being given every advantage imaginable and being the only wrestler in the company really protected by booking (other than Braun and welp...), he completely shit the bed against the most sure thing wrestler in the company this year (very possibly on purpose which no one wants to say). He got to take a nap in the middle of the four way at Summerslam, he had a great Goldberg match with Goldberg at biggest show of the year, and he had a match with Joe that is about at the level of an average Neville 205Live main event. Maybe if he had some volume of decent tv matches sprinkled in I'd feel differently, but to me when you are the most coddled and protected performer in wrestling history you need to be batting 1.000 or close to it if you work 5 times a year. And not at the "good match" level either, so the Joe match strikes me as an unfair positive to grant him in that context.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 7, 2017 23:07:01 GMT -5
Fair arguments, all. I sometimes think the "this guy *should* be at this certain level because of these certain circumstances" reasoning is a little flaky, arguing what we feel ought to be instead of what is, but I've used it for people in this before and, at least in this case, it really does apply. Even if I like his wobbly .600 better than the averages from his peers, he simply should be knocking it out of the park when he's only on tape five times a year, given a slew of great opponents, and for all intents and purposes presented as the top star.
The Asuka comparison gets thrown around a lot and has some truth to it, but really I think I'd compare him more to Aleister Black. Black's got a slight edge on volume and isn't actively shitting the bed, but as far as average match quality goes, I might take Lesnar over him. Granted, I haven't watched him since the Ohno match, and if I really like the Itami match and enjoy what he drags out of the reDRagon boys that balance could shift. But I think if you're seriously considering Black, Lesnar's worth considering too.
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gagnewest
New Member
Posts: 41
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by gagnewest on Oct 12, 2017 14:35:14 GMT -5
I watched one of his Joe house show matches and it was fine, but it doesn't change that the case for him boils down to his five PPV matches, which I have at fine, super-fun, excellent, MOTYC, and disappointing, and I'd take those five matches over, say, Cena's top five 2017 matches, or for that matter Brock's five 2016 PPV matches, for which I had him at #87 last year. You'd be correct to say he wasn't the best guy in the MOTYC, but that might've been the year's best performance from someone who wasn't the best guy in the match (along with Dash in every Revival tag.) You'd might also say the No Mercy match bodes poorly for the next time he goes over seven minutes, but that doesn't retroactively invalidate his good work earlier in the year. Since I only really care about volume at the top end, to me he has to be below Joe, but not a million miles below Joe.
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Post by exposer on Oct 25, 2017 20:45:57 GMT -5
I doubt he'll make my list after the putrid No Mercy performance. He's tremendous at WM against Goldberg & I did like his selling at Summerslam. The Joe match is good, but his performance didn't strike me as special. He might be my 99 or something. He's got a big hill to climb though after legitimately one of the worst main event performances in WWE history.
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Post by duyarvish on Oct 27, 2017 11:45:28 GMT -5
Brock is still to me one of if not the most actually interesting wrestlers in the world to me and probably the only person who can actually get me to watch WWE anymore. The unfortunate downside here is that Brock never gives a shit. As the final boss of wrestling there's really no one that can play the role close to as well as he does at this point if he actually decides to care. I don't think the matches were as bad as some of you seem to though. The Joe match was fine if not spectacular and nothing is ever think about again if not for something like this. The Braun match sucked but was a horrible match up on paper if you're going to insist on doing the "Brock Match". I wish he got someone good for his last match of the year instead of Jinder or at least one of those three or four ways he's always great in. He'll probably make my list in some facet but sadly it's kind of a lost year.
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Post by brockobama on Nov 19, 2017 21:51:30 GMT -5
So that AJ match huh.
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Post by bossrock on Nov 20, 2017 9:18:48 GMT -5
He did a great job selling the leg and was effective in throwing A.J. around, but other than that was a complete one-man show from Mr. Styles.
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Post by concrete1992 on Dec 11, 2017 9:36:59 GMT -5
The trick here is I doubt I'll ever watch the Braun Strowman match. I consider it a point against him but also since I didn't watch it, especially in real time, the odds of it sticking with me over the feeling of the Goldberg and Styles matches is unlikely. Those were two incredible matches that I don't think anyone besides Brock could have. Calling the Styles match a one man show feels unfair. Braun maybe could have had a similar match but no one comes off like a cat playing with a mouse more than Brock. The way he enters exchanges is intimidating. It is a cinematic MMA fighter approach. You know, absolutely wouldn't be a good idea in a real fight but looks like he is about to shoot regardless.
Was live for the Goldberg Mania match and watching the leapfrog from the way way back was still hot.
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