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Post by concrete1992 on Sept 25, 2017 10:18:32 GMT -5
ZSJ has always been polarizing for me personally. At times he exhibits the worse traits of modern indie wrestling who seems to be working a "GREAT MATCH" formula which produces cookie cutter matches devoid of meaning. Every move seems to made to check off a box. Other times he is the best wrestler on the planet doing things that no one else is doing and creating layers that make your head hurt.
I want to get out of the way that while I don't detest the Elgin AAW match it is generic without question. High effort, little value.
On the other hand you have the match against Timothy Thatcher. Hugely emotional bout. Highly technical bout with limbs being torqued without care for the opposition. Felt like a big title match even though I don't think anyone actually cares about any WWN title. He also gets a weird Negro Navarro match which is fascinating maestro match. Just quality lucha graps. With Zack going against Xtreme Tiger this year as well in Mexico he'll have made a nice little mix of wrestling down there. The Pentagon Jr. match during Mania weekend doesn't seem to get much hype but thought it was an exceptional match with defined roles. Zack was a prick even hitting a Canadian Destroyer, the move actually having meaning in the context of the match. Pentagon Jr. was super over so it all WORKED! The David Starr match from CZW is really good technical affair.
Have a lot of gaps I need to fill with Zack's footage, including NJPW, but from what I have watched he has delivered varied and quality stuff.
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Post by armsofsleep on Sept 26, 2017 11:30:03 GMT -5
Like last year, he's just an overwhelming volume guy. He wrestles a ton, against lots of different kinds of opponents, in tons of different situations. He's not pulling a Chris Hero and somehow just shitting out **** matches, but he has something like 50 ***+ matches this year, which is insane. To me, that makes him a lock for my top 15, and a possible number one guy. I think he's lacking a high end MOTYC that everyone can agree on, but I adore the Thatcher match.
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jml
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by jml on Sept 26, 2017 12:32:34 GMT -5
I've only watched Zack through New Japan this year but I did see the Lio Rush match and I loved it.
I think he adds a whole new dynamic to the house style when he's in New Japan and he's been stellar. But I still have to watch the latest Tanahashi match from Destruction.
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ed
Junior Member
Posts: 57
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by ed on Sept 26, 2017 15:08:21 GMT -5
NJPW Zack has largely sucked other than during the G1, but I can't really hold that too much against him because his matches get derailed by horrible and inevitable Suzuki-Gun interference spots.
He was great as a dickhead champion in PWG in his feud with Best Friends, I've enjoyed the majority of what I've seen from him in Evolve (particularly the Thatcher match) and he's been great in England when he appears for Rev-Pro, WCPW and the like.
I'll end up rating him high, but the NJPW run is gonna hurt him more than it helps him in my rankings I think.
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Post by notoriousgib on Sept 26, 2017 21:29:45 GMT -5
ZSJ is my number one with a bullet at the moment. I've enjoyed a ton of what I've seen from him. The Thatcher matches (ESPECIALLY the first) and the Scurll tag against the Best Friends stand out for some of his best output this year. I really need to check out that Negro Navarro match.
It is definitely true that his New Japan work outside of the G1 has been a little underwhelming, though.
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Post by problematic on Sept 27, 2017 0:01:37 GMT -5
My issue with Zack is that while I never really see bad Sabre matches, I also never really see great ones or at least not great ones that I remember. Even the Thatcher match which was great I had completely forgotten about until coming in this thread. He's just someone who has no lasting impact with me, yet I like having him around because I know he's going to have good matches pretty much regardless of opponent or setting. There are aspects of his formula that I dislike, but not enough where I think it makes me dislike his matches. Will be tough to place because he has the volume, but I care about virtually none of it
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Post by venegas on Sept 27, 2017 13:49:38 GMT -5
He had my two favorite matches of the G1 (vs Ishii, vs Ibushi) and a really awesome match vs Negro Navarro that pretty much cemented him as my favorite guy to watch right now. I've yet to see any WWN this year but I could only imagine that would just add on to his resume. Gun to my head right now, the best wrestler in the world is Zack Sabre Jr.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 27, 2017 13:53:33 GMT -5
While I think there are quite a few wrestlers who have higher peaks this year, I don't think any of them have the volume Sabre has. And that's not to say his peaks haven't been pretty damn high (the Ishii matches). Several good Evolve title defenses and a highlight run in the G1 propel him to at least a top 10 contender.
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gagnewest
New Member
Posts: 41
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by gagnewest on Sept 27, 2017 14:48:56 GMT -5
It's debatable as to how much is due to him eschewing bad habits and how much is due to 2017's PWGization, but he's my least annoying main eventer right now -- he avoids the no-sell overkill of Riddle and the finisher overkill of Reigns and the overkill overkill of Omega. The positive case for him is that nobody has been so good in so many different places -- even in NJPW, while his tournament matches have sometimes conceded too much to the house style, he got a good match out of Goto in April when given a decent showcase opportunity. With much of the top of last year's list stuck in WWE's midcard stockpile, he seems a decent shot to win it all this time.
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Post by quentinmoody on Oct 3, 2017 20:07:48 GMT -5
My number 1 and probably no chance of that changing for the rest of the year. Volume is unmatched by everyone except maybe Riddle, I think he has high end stuff is only below the clear Okada, variety in opponents he doesn't have much competition here again except Riddle, and I think he's been consistently the most interesting character in wrestling this year. To his dickhead taunting and flexing, the balance between being a sportsman and a hot head who loses his mind anytime he loses, he's delivered an even stronger year than his 2016 where I voted him #2 for the WDKW100 and #1 for my own WOTY rankings.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 6, 2017 13:41:59 GMT -5
At the moment I'd have him as my number two, if not a guy who could easily sneak into my top spot based on, as has been mentioned, sheer volume. Being that a wrote a whole fucking article on the topic, I'll have to echo Sam's sentiment that he's a guy who is very polarizing to me. Up until the worst CZW show of the year, he had a match I was pretty comfortable calling the worst match I'd seen in 2017, though I'm a little higher on it now having rewatched it. But, outside of that, I think he's really improved on nearly all of the aspects of his wrestling I hate/hated, in large part due to a heel turn he's taken in most of the promotions he works in regularly. He does well against other world-class guys but has also made matches against lesser opponents for me, most notably Sexsmith and Chuckie T. I was up and down on his G1 stuff but even that produced the Ibushi match that I sort of loved and reliably good bouts against Tanahashi, Nagata, and Ishii. Heck, I think he carried Tanahashi in that one.
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