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Post by problematic on Sept 28, 2017 7:11:42 GMT -5
If you watch CWF you are going to have him on your list, but I don't think that it's a slam dunk that he will be my top guy from that company.
For the loyalists of Gibsonville I am in the minority in that I think we have reached a point with his title reign where the inevitability of his winning each match is increasingly difficult to mask. For that reason I find myself slightly detached from his matches in a way that keeps me from seeing him as an absolute top tier guy. It's sort of an odd dynamic because in most places this wouldn't effect how I viewed a wrestler, but in the context of CWF it does. It's also a bit odd because I freely concede that he's probably got more matches in that promotion that I absolutely love than anyone else this year, though I think in many of those cases it was an opponents specific approach that made the match what it was. In any case I cannot imagine attending a CWF show and actually cheering for Trevor to retain his title at this point, and that puts me in an odd position because of the old school feel that is so central to that promotion.
I do think that I'm in a minority in this regard, certainly among the faithful that attend CWF, and even among those who watch Worldwide regularly. I also think Lee has yet to have a title defense that was less than good, and the vast majority of them at least border on being great matches. And there is something comforting about a guy who works the lengthy title defense gimmick in an age where brevity is fetishized by a big portion of the online fan base.
This reads as more of criticism of him than praise, but I do think he's a really interesting guy to talk about because i can see arguments for having him in a top five, or in the second half of a ballot. Not many guys I feel that way about.
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Post by armsofsleep on Sept 28, 2017 7:50:21 GMT -5
I won't have him in my top 5 like last year. And that's not even a criticism of him per se, because I think the match quality has mostly been great. I just think that CWF has sort of booked themselves into a corner with him, and it makes me a bit less invested in his matches. And outside of CWF, his resume is a little thin. He's had good stuff in AAW, but no crown jewel ala the Hero match last year. I liked his Dutt match in NOVA, and a lot of his Impact stuff is good, but I've he also still relies hard on comedy in PWG (and that one RevPro match).
He's still great, just more of a top 40 than a top 5 guy in my book.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Sept 28, 2017 8:11:31 GMT -5
He'll make my top 100 although admittedly I'm haven't watched a ton and I wasn't as high on the Chip Day match as others. But I imagine he is there in the end.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 6, 2017 15:02:38 GMT -5
As far as CWF goes, he's up and down for me this year, with one defense I love, two I like, and a few I dislike or even sort of hate. I'm a few months behind at this point and apparently I've missed a few great defenses so hopefully that ratio evens out a little. I've quite liked his non-title matches there and that adds a lot, but his bread and butter is the heavyweight title.
Outside of CWF, it's business as usual. He still relies on comedy more than I'd like but he manages to be a midcard heel holding a few promotions together, bringing a much-needed presence to the likes of PWG and AAW. Need to check out his TNA stuff but I can't imagine he's doing anything other than that there too.
Last year I had him at 6 and he's definitely not anywhere near that this go around, but he'll still make it on the better end of 50 unless he has a few more Elgin matches.
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Post by bossrock on Nov 3, 2017 8:55:37 GMT -5
Trevor has been tremendous as the ace of CWF. The Chip Day, Michael Elgin, and Nick Richards title defenses are all great and the matches with Arik Royal and Mecha Mercenary are also fun outings (even if the former is overbooked like hell and the latter runs too long). Need to catch up on his X Division stuff but he's a pretty solid top 30 candidate.
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gagnewest
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Post by gagnewest on Nov 3, 2017 13:07:27 GMT -5
I seem to be an outlier in that I think he's had a better 2017 than 2016. While it's true that the basic pattern of his CWF defenses didn't vary much (limbwork/kick out of everything/STF), whenever he got even a little out of his formula the matches were excellent. The Aric Andrews match I think is his masterpiece, integrating his customary big fight feel with genuine violence (the glue, as always, was selling.) His Impact and indie spot-/bombfests are supplementary to his case but they do push him up from the twenties to the teens on my list.
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Post by brockobama on Jan 2, 2018 4:38:31 GMT -5
Man, just a couple of months ago I was tooting that "not as good as 2016" horn but I've turned around on that now that 2017 is all said and done. Trevor finished out the year in CWF with a strong series of defenses against Arik Royal, Ethan Alexander Sharpe, and 29 other people in the CWF Rumble, with all of those matches finding a healthy spot on my top 100 matches of the year. I hear the argument where it gets less and less believable that he's ever gonna lose the belt, but moreso than that I watch his matches with the idea of "well shit, how's Trevor gonna get out of this one?" Watching his Mid-Atlantic title defenses sort of feels like watching old cowboy serials from the 50s where the dastardly top hatted villain has tied some young belle to the train tracks and the 3:05's coming and the sherrif's gotta find a way to cross a huge canyon to save her. It's goofy and cartoonish but I eat it up all the same. On top of that I've seen a few more quality efforts of his from AAW, PWG, and Impact (all heel performances that stand at a nice contrast to his CWF work) and with those and the Battlecade match still on the way, I can't see an argument for leaving him out of my top ten.
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Post by problematic on Jan 3, 2018 0:13:38 GMT -5
Man, I don't know about that Arik Royal match. I really, really wanted to like that and it just...wasn't bad but I actually think it was one of the most disappointing matches of the year for me. Arik took the heat for the match from some who were a little down on it, but I don't buy that at all because I watched him go 20 plus with Logan LaRoux at a higher pace and kill it. In any case that was a good match, that should have been great, and it wouldn't make my top Trevor or Arik matches of the year. Not even close. I'd honestly be interested to read your review of it if you've got it because to me that's one of the more obvious marks against Lee this year in CWF if you are coming at it from the perspective of wanting to make a criticism.
After being at Battlecade I find Trevor even harder to rate than before. The Wilkins match is going to be exceptionally polarizing. This will sound conspiratorial, but it kind of felt like the show was booked in a way where the other guys who have kind of broken out buzz wise would have limited opportunity to dazzle (Arik in a sub-ten minute tv title match, Cain went real short v. Richards), and Trevor would get his canvas. I don't even mean that as a criticism, because that's kind of how I feel a big show SHOULD be booked. In any case, was just a total passion play of a match. There were things I actually really loved about it, and I absolutely didn't dislike it, but the best performer in the bout to my eyes was not even an active competitor (being a little vague because I don't want to spoil it). And the finish and structure of the match are going to be debated for along time. It's really a fascinating match, and I enjoy it in part because of the fact that I think it was almost made to critically engage with. In a weird way I feel the same way about Trevor Lee himself.
The Rumble was a wild one too because it was a match with an almost absurd fundamental flaw to it right out of the gate, namely the fact that no one believed Trevor was losing the belt that way, so all the drama was around who would be the last person in the ring with him rather than who would win the match. I did think for the most part it was a spectacularly well put together match (I didn't agree with the way Richards was tossed, but his booking in the second half of the year is a bigger controversy, and beyond the scope of this), but to me the stars were actually Attitude and Cain. That's not to diminish Trevor, and his elevation of Cain in the finish was awesome to behold, but I almost feel like that night is more of a notch in Cain's belt than it is Trevor's at least as in ring performer.
In any case I could honestly see Lee finishing in my top 5, or finishing behind Arik and Cain as far as CWF people go this year. It's really hard. He is very much a special wrestler, with an incredibly special feel in that building. I do sometimes worry that it's to the detriment of others on the roster, but there are elements in play for other guys there, and I have more faith in CWF creative than any other creative team on the planet.
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Post by brockobama on Jan 3, 2018 2:10:16 GMT -5
I get your point with the Royal match. I was not a fan of how it turned out when I watched it as it "aired" but returning to it I found a greater appreciation. There's a reason I try not to do live reviews anymore. In any case it wasn't my highest-ranked match for either man by a long shot. Here's my review in case anyone else wants to ridicule it: brockhateswrestling.wordpress.com/2017/12/19/trevor-royal-cwf-sep17/
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Post by philschneider on Jan 3, 2018 21:51:02 GMT -5
I really liked the Darius Lockhart match which I haven't heard a ton of people talk about, but a really nice showcase match, with a killer last couple of minutes, I am also a low voter on the Royal match, really should have been better, but that Ethan Sharpe match was totally killer and it is great how Lee can work awesome matches with undercard guys and elevate them. Really reminds me of WAR era Tenryu.
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Post by brockobama on Jan 18, 2018 6:19:09 GMT -5
Battlecade main event was bad. Trevor has now been removed from my list.
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Post by problematic on Jan 18, 2018 8:21:29 GMT -5
Battlecade main event was bad. Trevor has now been removed from my list. You are only giving him the credit for the booking that he's demanded!
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Post by xoanafacetico on Feb 11, 2018 22:55:47 GMT -5
Auteur theory. The dumbest auteur ever, but an auteur in CWF regardless. Everywhere else he feels like a disappointment and is put in a role that doesn't take full advantage of him. The third guy in an AAW stable? Still in the X-Division? PWG's comedy heel?
Please send him to NOAH for 2018.
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bucky
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Trevor Lee
Feb 12, 2018 21:02:46 GMT -5
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Post by bucky on Feb 12, 2018 21:02:46 GMT -5
Fully prepared for the hate I will receive when Trevor ends up at or near the top of my ballot. I love his title reign so deeply, it's been my favorite thing for the last year and a half, and almost never lets me down. I understand his non CWF work is a big step down, but I absolutely adore his run with the belt and it stands out as a hell of an achievement.
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Post by bossrock on Feb 14, 2018 10:22:47 GMT -5
Didn't really see his TNA stuff, but his CWF and PWG runs were enough to get the #26 spot for me.
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