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Post by armsofsleep on Sept 26, 2017 11:38:57 GMT -5
By far the MVP of CWF this year. The RGL title has been perfect for him, as most of his matches tend to be simple, short, and to the point. The Garrini matches seem to get the most attention, and rightfully so. The only knock on him is probably volume, as he will end the year with around 30 matches. Obviously 90% of those matches are atleast solid, but it is a bit hard to compare Justice to some of the guys working 100+ matches a year. A lot of the CWF guys don't really work anywhere else, which I won't hold against them, but it does make them a bit difficult to judge occasionally.
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gagnewest
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Posts: 41
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Post by gagnewest on Sept 27, 2017 15:05:46 GMT -5
Can a regional midcarder deserve a #1 vote? I'll have to think about it, but if you judge a wrestler by median performance, Justice (still hurts to type the horrible name, but I'm getting used to it) has to be up there. His variety is just as impressive -- the Garrini matches are almost as different from each other as they are from, say, the Cecil Scott match. Still, his case would be considerably stronger if he ever wrestled outside North Carolina. Somebody pay him to do that, please.
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Post by philschneider on Sept 27, 2017 15:23:32 GMT -5
I haven't watched as much 2017 wrestling as I have in previous years, but Cain is probably the guy I enjoy the most. The Garinni match blew my brain out of the back of my head, but the matches with Cecil Scott and Mitch Connor were as impressive individual performances, he is also great as kind of a modern day John Tatum, has both bad ass moves and sniveling creep down pat.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 6, 2017 15:16:50 GMT -5
More and more I'm becoming someone who values a consistent and interesting character over just mechanical in-ring ability, but Cain's one of the best combinations of the two in 2017. Approaches matches in such a different way that keeps me glued. Has the sort of shithead personality that rides the line between hilarious and annoying and does so with the sort of finesse I don't expect from a guy so young.
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Post by melloyellobullet on Oct 10, 2017 16:57:58 GMT -5
I've seen every episode of CWF Worldwide so far this year and can easily say that Cain is the MVP of the promotion. The two Garrini matches were both great and really different from each other, the Cecil Scott match kind of blew me away with how good it was vs my expectations of it, the most recent singles match with Dirty Daddy was very good and Cain also puts in good performances in any kind of tag/multi man match that he's a part of.
If you haven't been watching CWF this year I think you'd be doing your ballot and Cain a disservice to not at least try and check out his stuff which is made very easy by the way CWF's youtube page gives each wrestler their own playlist.
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Post by problematic on Jan 3, 2018 17:43:27 GMT -5
He's really a wild card because when he's been given the chances to do something special this year he has succeeded every single time, and he's really maximized his opportunities in general better than maybe any wrestler on Earth but the question about how high you can rate a mid-card guy from a regional promotion is fair. I will say that Justice is the ONLY guy in that building who is over at anything near the level of Trevor Lee and that really should work in his favor. He's gotten over at a level above that of babyfaces who are very good, that the promotion has spent a good deal of time building as top tier threats. While most of his matches have been relatively brief, he's shown that he can work decent length or even longish matches in recent months. Most notably when he's been in there with high level workers - Trevor Lee, Chip Day, Dominic Garrini and Joey Lynch are all guys he's wrestled this year - he absolutely looks at their level, and not like a good regional guy who is out of his depth. The guy is a bit of a prodigy and from a week to week perspective him and Royal have stronger cases as the MVP of CWF than Trevor Lee does. I could see him as high as my top 10 or as low as 25-30.
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jacey
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Post by jacey on Jan 5, 2018 9:57:31 GMT -5
Cain has a very very high ceiling
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Post by brockobama on Jan 5, 2018 10:26:58 GMT -5
So as I was running down my various lists and trying to figure out what's what, I was struggling with where to put Cain. The kid's obviously massively talented, putting together two matches in my top 30 during what is ostensibly his rookie year, something Matt Riddle sure as shit didn't do for me last year. My dilemma, though, was what those matches amounted to. One was about ten minutes long if we're being liberal and the other was an appearance in the back half of a battle royale, spending about 16-18 minutes in the finishing stretch. He does shockingly well in both those matches, sure, but when I stacked him up against people who were putting on quality 30 minute matches several times a year, he started to wane in my eyes, especially considering that he doesn't have any other matches in my top 100.
But I guess the thing is, that's not the brunt of Cain's case. Most of what Cain did this year was smaller matches, usually defending the RGL title, facing off against the likes of Dominic Garrini (2 > years in the biz), Slade Porter (2 > years in the biz), Dirty Daddy (2 years in the biz), Darius Lockhart (3 years in the biz), Kool J (I don't even fucking know, 2 years in? Maybe? If that?), Cecil Scott (mostly retired), and Mitch Connor (mostly retired). In the rare chances he had to face off against a more experienced and/or full-time competitor such as Chet Sterling, Chip Day, or Ric Converse, they were in short matches that didn't go much over 10 minutes, if at all. In the back half of the year he spent most of his time in tag matches with opponents and partners of varying levels of experience and quality, with Cain usually standing out as a star performer. Haven't seen his Battlecade match yet but from all indications it seems like he wasn't put in a position in which to shine yet again. And that's really what it comes down to, I think. While Cain was certainly pushed and treated well throughout his rookie year, it wasn't necessarily in the way that is conducive to placing high in a list like this that, try as we might, often breaks down into an argument about snowflakes. The dude made do with... not necessarily bad situations but less-than-stellar matchups, time and again creating distinct, enjoyable matches. Of that list of people I mentioned earlier, I'd say almost all of those people had their best match with Cain in 2017. The dude was able to make chicken salad out of chicken shit in a way that Trevor Lee and Arik Royal sometimes--not always, but sometimes--weren't able to do, and for a guy who has, like, less than 50 matches under his belt that's astounding.
I still don't know where exactly I'm going to put Cain but the kid's got a real strong case that I think people should consider carefully.
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Post by problematic on Jan 5, 2018 15:43:26 GMT -5
I actually think the ring time argument works both ways. To me it's astounding that a guy who has worked for so few actual minutes relative to some of the high volume guys, still stands out above so many of those high volume guys. I'm not sure I'd have more than 3 of his matches in my top 100 for the year (I'd have the first Garrini match, the Rumble and the Joey Lynch match for sure), but if I were rating a guy on average performance I'm not sure there are even ten guys I could rate above him. There is no Cain match this year where he looked outclassed, lost, incapable, et.
It's an odd comparison, but I think he's an interesting comparison to Gage in that you could ding both on volume, but the unique quality, presence, and getting the most out of the tools they have, that both guys bring as arguments really makes them feel like guys who should be in the upper quarter even with clear flaws.
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