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Post by problematic on Sept 26, 2017 16:18:39 GMT -5
Come at me with your critiques. I do not give one fuck about them when a guy has the year Riddle has had in terms of crazy variety, expanding the dimensions of his style, and delivering in big time matches and settings.
Go all the way back to beating Rampage at the beginning of the year and he kind of made the Progress big lads belt a deal without even really being a big lad. His WALTER matches are classics. Not kind of good. Classics. Best pure wars in wrestling all year.
People can knock the Ishii and Shibata matches, I thought they both delivered on their promise of big fights. I haven't seen the Gage match, no clue what happened in it, but he had a legit death match with Tremont that was good and worked and he fucking murdered it in a WXW shootstyle tournament just in case you doubt that he is who we think he is. He also did well at the Chikara grapple tourney. Lots of ground being covered here, lots of range.
He had a low key great Mania weekend that in all honesty was probably better than anyone elses. Keith Lee rightfully was the break out star, but the Severn match was a great freakshow grapple match with Riddle literally citing his working influences out loud during it (*powders to the floor* "I learned that from Jimmy Rave!), the Galloway match was an awesome sprint that set up an angle that wasn't fully capitalized because of Paul, the Yehi match was great and one of the most underrated matches of the year, the WWNLive title match was excellent and I will defend that as a MOTYC to the death, and the Dijak match on the Beyond show was the most underrated match of the weekend. Honestly Riddle is the guy I most trust to absolutely destroy it if he has more than a couple of matches over two days as he did just that with WXW, Mania weekend and the SCI which saw him work three completely different sorts of matches, where he was effectively asked to play three totally different roles, and deliver very good to great matches across the board.
The Keith Lee match from La Boom was excellent, with probably the best ending of it's kind I've ever seen. It might be my Evolve MOTY, and regardless of how you feel about the Flo situation, no promotion has had a higher percentage of good matches than Evolve this year.
When Elgin wanted a big time first shot opponent to deliver a high quality dream match against for Glory Pro he picked Riddle and he delivered. The match v. Cobb from SSS was the best match of that tourney, and probably the best Cobb match ever. I haven't seen the Janela match from Beyond, but I heard it killed. He's got some misses, but I bet I would have more Riddle matches in my top 100 this year than anyone else other than maybe Yehi. Number one contender
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Post by armsofsleep on Sept 29, 2017 11:51:06 GMT -5
I actually think his resume is probably more complete and well rounded than last year, but I still probably prefer last year as a whole. I don't think he's become a bad worker or anything, but he is doing a few more things that drive me crazy (the jumping tombstone that looks terrible, some of the super ridiculous no-selling moments) and I think that will keep him out of my top 3-5 range.
I will have a lot of great moments to look back on though. The WWN title six way is a high end MOTYC for me, and just has tremendous storytelling all around. He still has basically a ***1/2 floor in EVOLVE. He's been the best part of PROGRESS between the Rampage match, the WALTER feud, and the SSS16 run where all matches were great in their own way. I think every RevPro appearance had a different feel and style and they all worked for me. There's still a lot I have to see from him too, which will probably only help his case.
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Post by problematic on Sept 29, 2017 13:24:45 GMT -5
I love the jumping tombstone. Love it. I actually greatly prefer it to the delayed tombstone a lot of guys do. Would be interesting in your thoughts on the Fitchett match from AAW which I just watched and thought was an excellent match even if it wasn't my favorite kind of match (if that makes sense). It's going to be funny if I have him number 2 again this year (very likely).
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Post by armsofsleep on Sept 29, 2017 13:27:02 GMT -5
I love the jumping tombstone. Love it. I actually greatly prefer it to the delayed tombstone a lot of guys do. Would be interesting in your thoughts on the Fitchett match from AAW which I just watched and thought was an excellent match even if it wasn't my favorite kind of match (if that makes sense). It's going to be funny if I have him number 2 again this year (very likely). I actually think the jumping tombstone is a great move, I just think he's slowly transitioned it into looking more like a slam than a piledriver. Probably much safer and better on his knees but he had a few early on that looked incredible. I'll check out that Fitchett match because I saw a gif or two and I think I have to see the whole thing. Plus I enjoy Fitchett a fair bit.
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spoilex
New Member
Posts: 10
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by spoilex on Sept 29, 2017 14:53:50 GMT -5
Riddle's 2017 has been better than his 2016 in my opinion. Folks got to see him in very different places and he's always in one of the best matches on the card. I didn't watch any of his EVOLVE work though, so here's where I need to catch up. God bless FloSlam!
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Post by venegas on Sept 29, 2017 18:45:19 GMT -5
If he manages to avoid becoming an indie overkill worker he will be a #1 candidate every year as long as his body holds up. The Ambition match vs Thatcher is a serious MOTYC and the O'Reilly WWN title match was really great.
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Post by notoriousgib on Sept 30, 2017 2:30:14 GMT -5
He's been trading spots with ZSJ as my #1 throughout the year. His crazy variety of opponents and matches is what's really giving him the edge right now. Dude's done just about everything he possibly could on the indies this year.
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gagnewest
New Member
Posts: 41
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by gagnewest on Oct 4, 2017 13:57:15 GMT -5
He can be infuriating, as when he and Stallion completely took me out of the SCI final for a few minutes — I haven't seen so many Germans no-sold since Stalingrad. Yet I might still vote him #1 anyway, because he really is a ridiculous talent and, for now at least, most of the time he stays on the right side of the line. Compared to Sabre, he sometimes has trouble balancing how much to give to lower tier guys; on the other hand, he probably does have the most complete offense in wrestling, and easily looks credible against big lads the size of Walter and Tank. One hit on him is the only genuine MOTYC I have from him is vs. Dijak, though I haven't gotten around to this year's Progress yet.
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Post by brockobama on Oct 7, 2017 3:38:19 GMT -5
If you know me at all you know that I'm a very public Riddle truther and yet I ended up agreeing with a lot of the things mentioned in this thread. He killed it in AMBITION, where he was very much in his element. Killed it also against Severn where I'd argue that he wasn't (stylistically, sure, a shoot fight with Dan Severn is right up his alley, but insofar as Riddle really had to struggle to get offense in it was different from his usual stuff). Killed it with the likes of Tremont and Gage where he was very much out of his element and managed to adapt well, mostly by virtue of his personality. Didn't quite kill it in 16 Carat but gave me a number of matches I liked, especially the Speedball match. Did well in the semis of the JKI in a weird spot against a weird champion that wasn't quite suited to a Riddle match. The second WALTER match in PROGRESS is sort of delightful. The Dijak match over Mania weekend was hurt by a lot of things but managed to come across as a big deal within Beyond and a lot of that had to do with Riddle's energy.
But along with all of those comes a number of matches that I mostly hated. The WALTER series should be something I adore but is made worse for me directly due to Riddle's worst habits. The Hallowicked match in JKI isn't bad but stands out like a sore thumb as the worst match in the tournament and the match least in line with the style the tournament was celebrating. A smattering of other matches with Elgin (the AAW one, haven't checked out Glory Pro yet), Banks, Fitchett, and a handful of other people were tedious as hell for me. He's exciting and terribly athletic, yeah, occasionally really charismatic too, but more than anything I'm just exhausted by so much of his work.
I'm woefully behind on EVOLVE and need to see his SCI stuff, which will definitely definitely help his case for me. In the end he'll probably have more matches that I like than matches I don't. Whether or not I like what he does in them is up in the air. Last year I had him at 65 which is pretty laughable in hindsight but was based on mostly giving up on EVOLVE halfway through the year, but still, based on what I'd seen that feels fair. This year he's got a much more diverse body of work at least as far as promotions go, but he has, undoubtedly, also grown as a performer. Small steps, maybe, but steps all the same. He'll pretty easily be twice as high on my list this year, if not more.
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Post by bossrock on Oct 10, 2017 10:43:59 GMT -5
Matt Riddle is a weird one for me. Last year, I thought he was great. Legitimate top 10 wrestler and author of one of the greatest rookie years of all time. I still think he's good, even great at times. But nothing about him this year has screamed "best in the world". There are times when he's beating the crap out of someone in the corner or in the Bromission and I love it, and there are other times where he just doesn't really seem all that different from your typical "good" indie worker. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't think I've seen a single match he's in that's been bad (I even thought the second Cobb match was a fun sprint). But for every awesome fight he's having with Keith Lee and Drew Galloway there's a just OK indy match where he really doesn't stand out all that much. I guess my issue is the perception of Riddle as opposed to the actual wrestler, because the actual wrestler is at least a top 30 candidate. But I don't think he has quite the peaks necessary for a top 10-15 spot.
Oh, and while he's hardly the only guy to no-sell a German, the way he does it just bugs me.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 5, 2017 11:23:12 GMT -5
Catching up more on his stuff and I've done a 180 on Riddle. His German no-sell still bugs me and some of his smaller indy matches aren't that great, but the vast majority of his Evolve and PWG stuff is very good to great. Can definitely bring the heat and does a very good job (for the most part) bumping and selling accumulated damage during a match.
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Michael
Full Member
Posts: 249
Pronoun: He/Him
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Post by Michael on Dec 5, 2017 13:47:42 GMT -5
He'll be my highest rated indie guy and more than likely will be in my Top 10.
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Post by Dante, The Voc on Dec 5, 2017 17:27:35 GMT -5
Currently doing my first unofficial ranking of the top 100 and I have him in at 6th
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Post by brockobama on Jan 2, 2018 3:29:27 GMT -5
Unless I have a weird change of heart late in the game, he'll make my top ten. In my viewing since my last post I've found a number of matches I've loved from him and a few more that I loathed. It's always going to be a mixed bag with Riddle but I'd compare him to someone like Zack Sabre Jr, who hasn't finished lower than 11th for me in years. He's got a number of habits I hate, some of which that have been mentioned already, but he's showing tangible growth for me and establishing himself less as a former MMA guy who just wants to do a bunch of wacky spots and more as a singular individual fully capable of being wrestling's new Adonis. He brings a unique approach to matches with the greatest deathmatch wrestlers of all time, retiring legends, aging shooters, technical gunslingers, dobok-wearing wunderkinds, charismatic giants, and Kentucky trickers, showing off his range as a master of the mat, a talented striker, and a great athlete. I'm not sure if any of those matches work so well without him. I certainly know the Tank match wouldn't.
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